Editing The Pen Addict 530/transcript (section)

== CY explains the popularity of ink and exclusives in Japanese stationery culture. ==


'''CY:''' Yeah. So I would say that ink is probably the best seller at any kind of TIPS because, unlike in the US, every retailer and their mothers have five exclusive inks. And the only way that you normally would be able to get these inks is if you actually go to these places. And a lot of times these places can be very, very, very remote. So when you have an event like TIPS, when everybody comes together, you can buy everything at once. Just, you know, imagine you're somebody living in Tokyo, you're a stationary lover, but you might not have the expenses to go over, you know, down to the very south, go over to Nagasaki just to buy the sink or, you know, go up to... There's a place in Hokkaido called Ishida Bungu. In order to get there, you have to take a plane to Hakodate, which is very far from Sapporo, the capital of Hokkaido. So you fly up to Hakodate, and then you have to take a train, and then you have to take a bus to go there. And the train leaves every half an hour, right? So when these people are here at the show, that's going to draw crowds.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Gotcha.

'''CY:''' And also, a lot of the retailers have their own exclusives, and not a lot of retailers in the United States have their own exclusives. So I think that's why the retail scene can do so well at shows, even though they're only bringing things that they normally sell at their stores anyway. However, there are, I want to say, two particular, maybe three, 2.5, vendors that always bring something specifically for the show. I would say the first one is BunguBox. They have a show exclusive, and that's always very, very popular, and always very well done. Eboya usually has, I wouldn't call them maybe show exclusives, but they're like first sneak peeks, right? So you can buy them at the show, and at a later date, you can buy them on their website. So those two, I think, are really good. And then Toyoka Craft, Toyoka Craft also, they had like pen show exclusives last year, but it's mostly like the lining cover, and they do not sell out on Friday morning.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So that was one of my big takeaways from the San Francisco pen show, is I was so happy they were there, and I was so glad to see the reception. I mean, and they're well-received anytime they show up, but to see it actually in person, to actually see that happen live, it was kind of something to behold for me. That was one of my bigger takeaways from the show itself. So I want to get your takeaways, like your main takeaways here in a second, but I wanted to ask you something about community between the U.S. markets and the Japanese market. So you mentioned like the shows here in the U.S. have a more community feel, but outside of the shows in Japan, it seems like everyone who's in the stationary community, everyone's pretty dialed into like what store is doing what, what events are going on. And how does, is that a valid observation, like the online stationary community and the kind of the store intertwining and sharing of information between, you know, what's going on in the stationary community online in Japan, like a pretty big deal, easy to follow, easy to track everyone, kind of keeping everybody in the loop.

'''CY:''' Yeah, I think because there are so many product releases that, that there's a lot of excitement going on just around the retailers, which is great. But community in the U.S. is more like, oh, this person online, I saw that they have this product. And then you might meet them at a pen show and be like, oh, I've been, you know, following you for a long time. And then you might talk to somebody else. They say, oh yeah, I saw it on this person's feed. In Japan, it's, it's less like that. It would more be like, oh, I saw this on this retailer's website. And I think it has to do with one,

'''CY:''' it's, it's just a different culture, right? There, there's more of a reserved culture.

'''CY:''' So it's not as, let's say, outgoing, more inward looking, but then also, I guess, related to it is that a lot of people like to be very anonymous online.

'''CY:''' Especially in, in Japan. So, you know, you have people, and Twitter is actually where most of the Japanese community lives, but they might not know each other's faces. They, they don't know each other's names. And I just came back from a, from a Wagner event. and, um, I met a bunch of high school students and I love it. And, you know, they were making these grinding machines and I, I got to talk with one of these, uh, these students. Later, I followed them on, on Twitter. And, uh, I saw that they were commenting on these other Twitter users, um, tweets, think, oh, so you're the person that did this. So, you know, the community, I think, is still very, uh, nascent. That's an SAT word.

'''CY:''' I'm down, I'm down with that one. Yes. Yeah. Still very nascent, but, but what I was very encouraged at, uh, especially this last Wagner that I went to is, um, the number of young people, number of students, and these people were so willing to experiment. So I think give it five to 10 years, you know, tips is going to be able to grow that community. However, I think you really need, um, the stores also to facilitate, to create spaces for that. Japan doesn't have the space for you to just hang out. Right. So, so you've got to be deliberate about designing those spaces. Whereas in the U S I think it's a little bit easier because if there's a store, it might be the only store in, you know, the state. And then, and then you all just have to go there.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. Right. And that's why like you and I talk about this and, and I've said it to, to, to the drum goals, uh, to, to Larry and Michael, like you walk into the store on a Saturday and there's just like a cooler there with like drinks in for just, you know, for people just coming to hang out. Cause they know people are going to be there all day. So they're just like making it easy for you to just come hang out there and just have this whole communal aspect about it. And it's great to see. It's great to see. All right. So what was, what was the big highlights for you aside from hanging out with me in San Francisco? So that's number one was your main highlight. So it's like starting at like number two highlights, uh, of your trip. Uh, what were your, your main takeaways from, I guess like five weeks in the U S.

'''CY:''' So I went to, to Disneyland. And I, I,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I,

'''CY:''' I customized a lightsaber and now I am a nib Sith.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes. Yes. That was one of my favorite pictures, um, that I took at the show was just this completely accidental. Like that was literally, we're closing. We're trying to go to dinner on Sunday night. Yeah. Let me, this is a little bit behind the scenes and everyone is ticked at CY because he, he's just working. Like he's working, you know, like CY is like taking care of customers. CY is doing his job. Right. And April's like, I have to fly out. We're going to dinner. Like, come on everybody. And then CY breaks out the lightsaber right there at the end. I just happened to be there to catch it. It was great. And she's like, I'm taking the Uber now.

'''Speaker 00:''' Yeah. She, she left us.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Shout out to shout out to April. She made all the right decisions. So yeah, it was a good move. To leave us behind.

'''CY:''' April was, was great. She planned everything. I'm pretty sure, you know, the world runs just because April is in existence.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' This is factually correct. What a just whirlwind of awesomeness. She is. So yeah. What other, what other big takeaways just broadly, broadly speaking? Just meeting,

'''CY:''' meeting listeners, actually.

'''CY:''' It's humbling. It's, it's, it's incredible. It's, it's my first time really meeting listeners in, in real life. And, or at least so many of them. And yeah, it's, it's just, you know what, um, kind of related to this, this, this person's not a listener, but, um, first let me, let me talk about the listeners. So, so listeners just recognizing me by voice. I think that's, that's incredible. And it makes me realize that, you know, what we're, what we're doing, the product that we're putting out, and I call it product. We don't make any money on it, but you know, the, the, the thing that we're, we're producing, um, brings joy to people's lives. That that's, uh, I don't think there is something more meaningful that you can do with your life. Um, so, so that was, uh, that was huge. And, and a specific episode that I want to talk about, what's that? Drum goals. Um, and this 91 year old man handed me his Lamy 2000. He said, um, my late wife bought this for me as a present back in 62. Wow. And, uh, and it writes too broad, sent it to Lamy. They said they can't get any thinner and I can't use it. Would you be able to help me out? So I did a size reduction on this, uh, Lamy 2000, not a difficult thing to do, but boy, was I clenching my butt. Yeah. Yeah. That's a different level. Right. And, and, and, you know, when I handed it back to him, um, he wrote with it, it, and he said, you know, he said, thank you. Now I, I have a memento to, to remember my wife by. And I think in, in this industry, in this business, we are not, we are not changing the world, you know, and like, we're not going to bring world peace. We're not, you know, solving world hunger, but, but we're changing somebody's world. Um, somebody is going to have a better day just because they're listening to this podcast. Um, you know, listening to us drone on for 70 minutes is, uh, you know, it's, it's going to hopefully, uh, make somebody's bad day a good one. So I think really the realization that we're actually doing good for people. Um, yeah, that's, that's very humbling.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It definitely hits home when you're able to get out into a different area. Right. Then you're, then, you know, the walls of your home or apartment or the town that you live in and to, to get out, it really, really kind of hits home a little bit when you're, you're able to do that. So good. I'm glad like, that's like the biggest takeaway experience, um, is that you do, you know, have fun what you're doing and it does make up, put smiles on other people's faces. And at the end of the day, like that's the most important thing. And that's what we try to represent. And I know that's what you try to represent as well. And it's just really cool to now you've got that story, right? Like, and, and now that person has their story too. And, uh, it's just really cool to be part of that. So really, really great. All right. I realized one of the things, uh, preparing for this show, we're, we're going to throw it to a break here in a second. Okay. Okay. I think because like, Oh, we're, we're like, yeah. Do you have like, you know, a few more minutes to talk about personal stuff? I have unlimited time. Yeah. Cause I realized that I, for all I know about you and all the time I've spent with you, I want to know more about what CY likes to use himself. So before that, we're going to toss it over last break of the show. Promise, promise, but we're going, we're going long. We knew we were going long. So we spread this out. So let me take a break real quick and, uh, we'll be right back.

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'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right, CY, I want to know what your favorite pen is.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That's a hard one. Isn't it? It's the hardest question you can probably be asked.

'''CY:''' Well, the answer is it depends. And what it depends on is what have I bought the most recently?

'''CY:''' Other than that, I think...

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So let me reframe it for you. What do you use a pen for when you're not working on a pen, right? What kind of pens are you reaching for when you're not actively manipulating them?

'''CY:''' I like right now one of my absolute favorite pens. And this pen gave me a real different experience. It's a 149 adorned with maquillage by a studia in Wajma. And it has a super sharp oblique italic nib on it. And I like to use it just to practice more calligraphic writing. I'm really trying to get more into that part of the world. So that's what I really enjoy right now. Otherwise, I enjoy me some extra needlepoint flex nibs. Again, that's really to get me into that world of calligraphy. I'm still pretty rubbish at it.

'''CY:''' But yeah, at least those are the tools.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Let me prop you up on your calligraphy real quick. So a lot of times, if CY and I were out to dinner with a bunch of friends, and a lot of times at these pen shows, people will pass around their notebooks just to like, hey, can you sign my notebook? Or just write a note to say, we're at the pen show. And this is my little diary from the pen show. Can you add something to it? So I would be just like, hey, it was great meeting you at the pen show and my little handwriting. And then I'd hand it over to CY. And then 30 minutes later, it would come back. And he's got this whole calligraphic writing, just dunking on everyone who's written next to him in the notebook. But this is a whole beautiful little piece over there. So yeah, good job. You are definitely practicing it and putting it to good use. So I got a kick out of that.

'''CY:''' So it's really something that I think has a lot of potential. And I'm actually going to try to do, well, it would be last weekend already for the listeners. But I'm going to try to put out a little instructable. Okay. A live instructable probably on Twitch to show people how to use FlexNibs. I think there's a lot of mystique around FlexNibs, but nobody knows how to use them somehow. So I think just going through the theory basics, stuff like that. But that's something that I really like to use for myself as well. And it's really something that I think has a lot of potential for us.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. So along the same lines, outside of pens, what inks and what stationary paper products do you find interesting? Maybe just that's in Japan that hasn't kind of caught on around the rest of the world or has started to come on? What are you seeing that interests you right now? And it doesn't even necessarily have to be from a pen basis.

'''CY:''' Yeah. So personally, I really like purple inks. I like desaturated inks. Desaturated inks really show that color shifting, chroma shading very well. So I like those. Unfortunately, all I use is blue because that's what I use to test pens.

'''CY:''' But yeah, that's something that I really like. I don't know if it's not caught on in the US. But oh, and you know what? This I think is really cool. Wearing Gull, they make these inks that are themed after literature. So they have like Alice in Wonderland. They have like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And their whole concept is you add stuff to the ink to change it. So I think they came out with an Alice in Wonderland thing. And it was like Becoming Witch or something. And it's just one bottle of ink and then four different types of shimmer. And depending on the shimmer that you add to it, you are a different type of witch. Nice. And that's, I think, really, really cool. That interactive, that playfulness with the products. I think the Korean ink manufacturers are just superb. Superb at it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I actually picked up the little added shimmer from Bangu Box in San Francisco for one of their ink lineups. And they had like swabs of here's this ink with all of these different shimmers in it. And it's interesting to see like that aspect, you know, like you're saying, like the Korean ink makers really leaning into like the customization, the creativity. And that market is really huge over there. Like we've talked, like I've listened to y'all talk about the glass dip nip pens just like blowing up over there in the Japanese and Asian market in general. As opposed to like in the U.S. where it's not necessarily a thing, but it's like a huge thing right in your market.

'''CY:''' Yeah, absolutely. And I went to Marizen just yesterday. First day of the Autumn Marizen Pen Fair. And glass pens are everywhere now. Like every single row had a glass pen. And that's just, you know, it's just where the market is. And I think it's very fun and interactive. And, you know, you can really collect a lot of those because they all look different.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. And honestly, it's quick and simple. Like in relation to a fountain pen, getting someone into like a $200 fountain pen with like extra mechanics and extra maintenance. And like, you know, we're used to that now. It's like not a big deal. Right. And once you get into it, it's like a non-issue to like clean a fountain pen or change in ink. But getting people into just, hey, here's this really, really simple way to express yourself. Like, I think it's fantastic.

'''CY:''' So, Brad, I'm going to send you a link on Twitter.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay.

'''CY:''' Like you'd just click on that link.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Let's do this. We're doing this live on the show.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. We got it.

'''CY:''' That's a glass pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, we will have this link in the show notes. We're going to keep this up. I am transfixed at what is happening on my screen. I am. Look, this is what we're going to do. I am not going to explain this on the show because it's unexplainable. Right. So, I will put this in the show, in the show notes. Y'all make sure to go click on this link when CY mentions this. And I am. Wow. There are no words to what's happening here. So, the level of artistry in these glass dip manufacturers is outstanding. Like, it's outrageous. It's extraordinarily high tech for a simple mechanism, right? Like, that's what's fascinating about this. Like, this is simple stuff that artisans are making into, like, their own creations. It's beautiful. So, this leads perfectly. And it's like, how jealous should I be that I'm not literally surrounded by this stuff all the time? Like, you just casually keep dropping, yeah, I went over to Morazon and did this yesterday. I was like, come on, man. It's like, this is unfair. This is unfair. Like, how jealous should I be? I think pretty jealous is the answer.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Or how broke would I be is probably the better question.

'''CY:''' Yeah, I think your wallet is probably pretty happy that you're not here. I think that's really, you know the saying, distance makes the heart grow fonder?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes, yeah.

'''CY:''' I think there's a little bit of that. And I think, you know, at San Francisco, there's a huge kind of fever for Japanese products. I think the reason is because you can't get it every day, but it's just close enough that if you wait a while, you know, you might be able to just reach out your hand and aspire to it.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right.

'''CY:''' And I think, you know, we are obviously very lucky in many ways to have so much stationery around us. But I think if you are here, if Bradley Dowdy was born in Japan, the pen addict wouldn't exist. Because it would just be normal.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It would just be normal. That goes back to our conversation at the beginning, right? Like, you don't know it's different, right? It's just what you do. It's what you have. And it's really cool. And, you know, that distance that you mentioned, like, it's, you know, that's what gets my brain going. And it's like, oh, it's fascinating. But, like, if you lived in it every day, like, it would be the norm. And, like, I think there's a lot of value in that. So, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. All right. See why. We're not going to let you go yet. Because I need to know, what does the future look like for you, for Tokyo Station, for Tokyo Inklings? Do you ever think about, like, hey, I'm really enjoying this. I'm having fun being part of this community. What is next for you? Are we going into, like, really, really mad scientist nib mode, nib Sith, if you will? Or what's kind of, what are you thinking about these days?

'''CY:''' Yeah. I've been doing this long enough to understand that it's not, like, a fad for me. Mm-hmm. Because sometimes, you know, you're really into something and then you're just like, okay, you know, now it's time to back off. Right. But I've been doing this every day for the last five years, right? Something that I really, I heard on a TikTok somewhere. They say, hey, how do you manage getting burned out? And, of course, you know, there are periods of time where I just don't work. And then there are other periods of time where I, you know, work the entire day. But I saw this quote on TikTok and said, it says, how do you know you are ready to go pro at something? And this person on TikTok, they said, you can't get tired of shooting hoops in the local basketball court. You can't get burned out by shooting hoops in the local basketball court if you want to go pro. Because you're going to be shooting a lot more hoops, right? Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's just the beginning.

'''CY:''' So, in that way, I think I do a good job at regulating myself, at working too much, but not too much to the point where I say, you know what? I've had enough of this. And people like that do exist, right? There are pen makers. There are nib makers who just push themselves too hard and decide that they can go on. So, I think I do a good job at regulating myself. I give myself several hours in the day specifically only to wind down and to relax and play video games. I work all the time, but I also dedicate parts of the day just to me where it doesn't belong to anybody else. And I work when I want to because I think that's when I make my best work. So, I've been doing this, you know, trying to balance work and life and then the main job for a while. To know that this is more than a fad. In the future, I'm hoping that this will replace my day job and really go into, you know, the industry, the business of it. I think I have a good base. I have a good foundation because I already have customers. I already have people who know me. I'm not going into this blind. Right. But there is still a lot of work. There's a lot of capital that needs to be considered. Brett, you've made products. So, you know, the scariest thing is inventory, right? Yes. You know me very well. So, I think there needs to be a balance. And I'm slowly working on getting there. And I'm very lucky to have a lot of people who support me, who are willing to collaborate with me, who are willing to put money into me. And I'm very grateful for that. The second part, I think, is really about, you know, what about my activities? And I think in the future, I did five weeks this time. If I were to go full time, I would probably do seven to eight weeks in the United States.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Okay.

'''CY:''' Because the tickets are just extremely expensive. So, it has to be worth it for me. I talked a little bit about the economics of going to the pen shows this time. I actually lost money going. I mean, I, you know, I earned a lot of money. But a lot of that is in the products that I invested maybe two years ago or three years ago. Brought them over and then they sold. But they maybe a little bit less than covered my flights. So, maybe longer, less intensity. Right. More stores, more retailers. I found that a lot of people who weren't able to go to shows but were able to go to the retailers really appreciated that. You know, I was able to go around to the different retailers.

'''CY:''' And maybe do something in like Canada as well, right? So, that would be a good way kind of on my way home.

'''CY:''' Lastly, I think it's all about cutting deals with retailers. You need the support of retailers if you want to survive, I think, in the business because you need a distribution channel. And you need people who, if you want to scale, you can't be the one on the sales floor yourself 24-7. Right. And the grinding stuff, that's me on the floor 24-7, right? I love doing the grinding stuff. But there's a cap to how much money can be made just by grinding. Right. Because there's physically a limited number of hours in the day. Yes, that's math you can do pretty easily. Yeah. Yeah. So, I need to create my own product. I need to diversify. And hopefully, in five years, I won't be the one that's doing every single grind. I'll do some of them. But hopefully, I'll be able to find somebody, maybe a high school student that I met in Wagner to help me out, to join me in this business. And I'm looking forward to building a business where the business belongs to employees. I'm very interested in the organization building, organization creating aspect of that. And I want to show people that there's money to be made here so that more people want to be in the business, raise the profile so that I don't get on an Uber. And, you know, the driver says, what's a fountain pen? Right. Never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, you know, one step at a time. If I can only take one week in the U.S., I'll just have to have my mother fly out to San Francisco, I guess.

'''CY:''' The trip there is just so much easier. The trip out to D.C. is like 14 hours, and it's a nightmare. To San Francisco, only eight hours.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep.

'''CY:''' Yep.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Well, I love following your journey. You are definitely on the right path. We are lucky to have you in our community and creating and sharing and entertaining us. And I'm lucky to have you in my life to call you a friend. And it was great to finally spend some time in person with you. And I know it won't be the last time. It won't be the last time you're on the show. It will not be the last time we see each other in person. And I just, again, wanted to thank you so much for everything you do for all of us, really. Not just me individually, but, like, literally our community, the stationary community, is better off for having people like you in it. So thank you so much for doing everything that you do. I really, really mean that.