Editing The Pen Addict 484/transcript (section)

== Feedback and Future Plans ==


'''Brad:'''  Next month. Like, literally, it's going to take me like a month to go through this backlog. That's how many orders I got, which is great. Thank you all. Like, that's – it worked as intended. Just, I think, even better than intended. But it goes to show me – Yeah. Yeah, it goes to show me that, like, people really love this product and people really appreciate what we did. And that makes me proud. And we'll talk about that more. But, yeah, that's the current situation is we sold through a lot of cases and have a lot of shipping to do. It's going to be – it's going to take me a while to process all that. And then after that, we'll kind of get a lay of the land, see what cases I have left, see, you know, if there's inventory that I've missed. I know one product, you know, that I'll be able to put back up, you know, a small amount of – like, one box, like, kind of slipped through the cracks. And I was like, oh, well, I just can't do that today. But we'll have another round of new inventory as we go through this month. So, you know, maybe later in the year I'll send out another note and say, hey, this is, like, the final stock. And then, you know, maybe next year – I haven't thought about this at all. Maybe next year in Atlanta we have, like, the last hurrah of, like, all the one-off prototypes and all the just the random stuff that I can't sell.

'''Myke:''' See if you can somehow rent that old – your garage for a day. Yeah, exactly. That would be hilarious.

'''Brad:'''  That would be hilarious. Like, there's – we have such good memories. Like, such good memories. Like, and I don't want to, like, put knock out the pasture. It's too important to me. It's a really important part of my life. And, you know, while this is the end of what it is now, like, I hope it doesn't go away forever.

'''Myke:''' All right. Let's take a break. And I got some questions for you. All right. As you knew I would. I'm ready. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform to build our own online presence and run your business. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace has you covered because they combine cutting-edge design with world-class engineering to make it so easy for you to establish a home online and make your ideas a reality. Whether you want to promote your business or your next idea, whether you want to showcase your work with a beautiful portfolio, whether you want to sell physical products, whether you want to announce an event, write your blog post, it doesn't matter what it is, Squarespace gives you the tools to do it. You start with a professionally designed template and use drag-and-drop tools to make it your own, to really make it look even more beautiful and modern than just what they give you out of the box. It's awesome. You can customize the look and the feel, the settings, the products that you have on sale, and more with just a few clicks. And everything's optimized for all screen sizes, so it's going to look great everywhere. With Squarespace, you get free unlimited hosting, top-of-the-line security, dependable resources, 24-7 customer support, the ability to grab a domain name and register it for the site, take advantage of SEO and email marketing tools, and so much more. And you don't have to patch anything, upgrade anything, install anything. They take care of it all for you. So, go to squarespace.com slash penaddict, and you can sign up for a free trial today with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code penaddict, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash penaddict. And when you decide to sign up, use the offer code penaddict, and you'll get yourself 10% off your first purchase, and you'll be showing your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of the penaddict and all of RelayFM.

'''Myke:''' So, one of the things that you've been mentioning, and I heard you mention a little bit, because you were talking about this in your Twitch stream yesterday, twitch.tv slash penaddict. People should go check it out.

'''Myke:''' Can you clarify, like, why a lot of the conversation is focused around you and your decision? Because, you know, a lot of people will be aware that Nock was you and Jeff.

'''Brad:'''  Right, right. And Jeff knew this was happening, right? But Jeff and I, about, I don't know, was it a year ago? We talked about it on the podcast. When I wanted to keep Nock going, I knew I had to invest some of my own money into that. And from a business paperwork perspective, as 50-50 owners of the company, I could not invest my money without the partner investing a similar amount of money. So, and I wasn't going to put that on Jeff. Like, I wanted to do it. And, you know, I wasn't going to make him make that decision. So, I said, hey, would you just let me take over the company? I'm going to try to make this work. And the way I'm going to do it is I'm going to invest some of my own money into it. And so, we actually did, like, a paperwork transfer of ownership to me. So, it was solely, like, my decision, like, how to allocate funds and, you know, do all that kind of stuff and try to make things work out in the end. And then it got to the point where, you know, I had to make the decision that we made today. Like, it was just me continually trying to fix, trying to make Nock a thing. And, you know, it got to the point where, like, I could no longer sustain that. So, you know, I'll let Jeff know, talked about it. And he said, you know, that sounds like a good decision and, you know, all that stuff. So, yeah, like, that's why it was, you know, I talk about, you know, like, we talked about it when you were reading some of my emails. Like, sometimes you say I and sometimes you say we. And it's, like, that's totally how it has to be with Nock because Nock is me and Jeff. It'll always be me and Jeff, no matter, like, whose name's on the paperwork. Like, Jeff is why Nock exists. And I'm just forever grateful to him. I consider him a close friend. And just he's an amazing designer and maker. And, like, Nock wouldn't exist without him. So, just huge shout out to Jeff. He knows I love him.

'''Myke:''' But ultimately, the decision to shut it down kind of had to come from you. And that's that, right?

'''Brad:'''  Yeah, I mean, I've been the only one involved in the business for two, three years now.

'''Myke:''' Yeah.

'''Brad:'''  Like, even when it was a 50-50 thing, like, Jeff was just, I mean, Jeff, you know, has a wife and kids and a full-time job. And, like, couldn't put the time in that, you know, to work on it. So, it's been a solo show for quite some time now. Yeah.

'''Myke:''' How? We touched on some of this already a little bit. But I want to kind of understand, like... So, you had a business that was selling products, but it wasn't making money. Mm-hmm. Were there some... Did you guys make mistakes? Like, were your margins wrong? Did you overorder on certain products? Like, Nock was a successful business. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't... It seemed like it got to a point and things kind of seemed to stop. Do you have any feeling now on what might have happened?

'''Brad:'''  Yeah. Going to retail was the worst decision we ever made. Okay. That was all on me. That was my decision.

'''Myke:''' Can you explain a little bit about what that decision was and why you think it was wrong?

'''Brad:'''  Sure. Basically, our margins are great if we're selling products direct. Yeah. Right? We built it to sell our margins... Built our margins to sell the product directly. Yep. So, and that worked well. And, you know, it's like, well, if we're going to grow the business, do we need to go to retail? And let's try to do that. And took a cut on our margins just to do that.

'''Myke:''' Ask the retailer, say, well, just... Oh, I'm picking them out of that. You don't have to. But you can't go to Goulet and say... Sure. Well, then Goulet comes to you and they're like, hey, we would love to sell some knock products in our store. And then you go, okay, then. We charge $25. You're going to have to charge $35. Right. You can't do that. And the reason you would say that is because, well, now, you know, you could be taking, say, a 10%, 20%, 30% hit on your margin. Because now, you know, like the retailer needs to make money too. So they now need to make money from what was originally all the money you made. You've got to give them a slice of that. So it reduces the amount of profit that you see from an individual purchase.

'''Brad:'''  Exactly. And with the idea, the false idea, that we would make it up in volume, right? Well, it happens.

'''Myke:''' Right. Right? It does happen. But it doesn't happen for many people. But it does. Right. In theory, it could have happened. I see why you did it. Yes.

'''Brad:'''  But. Yeah. I don't regret the decision, but I made a mistake. Right? I think those are two things I can separate in my mind. Yeah.

'''Myke:''' Because you can still look back at it and be like, in the same circumstances, in the same situation, I would still make the same decision. Right. But it always was the wrong one. And if I was going to try a post-mortem, my feeling would be it was unnecessary because the people that were buying knock cases would have bought them from you. They didn't need to buy them from the retailers.

'''Brad:'''  Right. So, that's when, from our perspective, I'm looking at it like, brand. Let's get our brand built. But we really had more of just like, it was a more personal thing.

'''Myke:''' It was a more personal business. You know, like if you, you know, there are other companies that could have carried the product that may have been better for that, you know? Just because like, you know, I think a lot of the places that the products were in, they're already very much in our community. Like, they're very much in our world. Like, for example, if you were able to put it at like, an office supply store, right? It might have been a different situation. Because then you are truly adding on sales where I think probably what happened is you just moved the sales around to different places and overall lost money on it. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

'''Brad:'''  Totally. So, and then, you know, that gets into the whole like, inventory questions that we've had, you know, in the past. It's just like, carrying like so much volume and dollars tied up in inventory. Right, right. Like at one point.

'''Myke:''' Because now you're holding inventory in multiple places, right? Right, right. So. Because when do you, when you're working with a retailer, when do you make the money?

'''Brad:'''  Just on, just on the initial sales. Yeah, see, that's not what you want, right?

'''Myke:''' Yeah. The ideal situation, which I don't even know if this exists, is the retailer pays you up front, right? For the product.

'''Brad:'''  I mean, they did. Our retailers paid up front. Okay. Yeah, that was fine. Like, that was fine. So, balancing. So, when you do that, right? Say we're working with 10 retailers. Yeah. I have to understand their business to understand how much I need to order. Like, what is their business model to sell these products? And what is that volume? And like, plan ahead and like, make these like, educated guesses on volume and future orders. And it just becomes this whole cycle. And we just ended up, you know, just digging a hole.

'''Myke:''' Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. That makes sense. Mm-hmm.

'''Myke:''' Why shut knock down? Why not just rest it?

'''Brad:'''  That's kind of what I'm leaning towards. I mean, I'm definitely, well, okay, let me rewind. Why shut it down? Because like, I'm never going to have 40 more hours a week to work on it, to take a break and then reboot it, right? Yeah. That's not what I want from knock. So, I mentioned that I am not, I mentioned this in Twitch, that I'm not going to work 80 hours a week to try to make this successful along with everything else. Yeah. I'm just not going to do that. I'm not in like, I'm not on hashtag team hustle. You know, I'm not on, you know, work or die type of things. You know, I have a family, I have a life, I have other things I want to do. I have other successful businesses that I run. I don't need to kill myself to make this happen. Like, if I decided to, you know, work 80 hours a week, knock would still be going. I'm choosing not to work 80 hours a week because I don't want to. I'm just going to be very clear about that. I do not want to rise and grind, as the chat is saying. That is not me. I don't think that mentality does the businesses of those people justice. Yeah. Because I think everything I've built is personal. And you lose that when you're, you know, when you're always be hustling. I think you lose the personal touch that makes these things successful. And that's like the most important thing to me is to have like a personal connection, a community, a conversation with, you know, your customers. And you're just going to lose that.

'''Brad:'''  That's my opinion, you know, in that type of thing. Could I, I mean, is it technically possible for me to do it? Sure. But then it's technically possible for me to not have a life. And I like having a life. I like having my family. I like my kids. I like having, I like having free time on the weekends. I don't want to work weekends anymore. I work, I work every Sunday. Um, I basically work six days a week, right? Already just to do the stuff that I need to do. I, I, I've chosen not to work Sundays anymore. It hasn't worked yet and it's not going to work for a while with all these orders I have to ship. But like next year, I don't want to work on the weekends. That's my goal. So I'm just not going to do it. And this is this decision I had to make to get there because everything else is working really well. Like I have, I have time to work on pen addict and make it better. I have time to work on spoke and make it better.

'''Brad:'''  Take those two things that are successful. Not that knock wasn't successful, but adding in just a marginal amount of hours to knock does, will not make that a success. It needs a huge bulk of hours that I just don't have.

'''Brad:'''  So to get back to your original question, why shut it down and not rest the brand? Because I'm never going to bring it back the way it was before. Never, ever. It's not even a consideration. I might, like I said, I might do, I'm not even saying I'm for sure going to like have like a singular pen case and a singular note card product. I think those are thought, those are decisions I don't want to make today. Yeah. The decision I will make today is that knock is not going to be what it used to be. I promise you that just because I don't have the time.

'''Brad:'''  You know, I, I'm not taking anything off the table other than me running knock as a full-time job. So everything else is, is, is on the table, but no decisions are even remotely ready to be made for that.

'''Myke:''' Okay. So basically what you're saying is like this, you know, the, a standalone website selling a bunch of cases. And like, it's just, that's just not, that's just not the thing. Right. Right.

'''Brad:'''  Okay. Like I said in the newsletter, like I could see knock being a project based, you know, outlet. Right. Like one-offs collaborations projects, but on a, it's like a very small scale. And I mean collaborations as in like, I would make a case to sell on the pen attic site and that's it, you know, that kind of thing. I don't mean like, Hey, let me collab with like every retailer and every retailer has their own case. I don't have time for that.

'''Myke:''' No, because now you're back to square one again.

'''Brad:'''  Or, or the desire to do that because I don't need retailer X to come and say, Hey, can we do this collaboration? And I say, yes, that's literally a year of my time right there. It's if they call me today, it's going to take us a year to deliver the product. And I don't have time for that.

'''Myke:''' But at the, at the same time, knock has this IP, it has all the, the case designs and stuff. And so that's valuable.

'''Brad:'''  I think our case design, that's why I'm not ending the brand. I'm keeping the brand because I think our, what we have built is valuable. Whether I'm making money off of it or not. Right. Like our case designs are valuable. I think they are special. Like, I think they made a difference in how people think about how they carry their stuff in, in this community. And I'm not letting that go. Like, like if anything, like that's like the, the thing I'm the most proud of is our design work. Me and Jeff is we made some really good stuff and, you know, maybe someone else will own it one day and it continues to exist. And that means we did a good job. That stuff is valuable. And I, I'm going to tell y'all right now, I understand that. And I'm not letting that go. No one's going to be making, you know, our stuff without our involvement in it. Yeah. At some, at either, you know, licensing or purchasing or whatever. Like none of that's on the table. Like I don't even know where to begin with that. But there's a reason why Nock is not just going to vanish off the planet because I think what we make is valuable. I think it's actually very valuable to be perfectly honest. So, and I don't have to sell it.

'''Brad:'''  If that makes sense.

'''Myke:''' Yep. It does. Um, so really like ultimately the thing to take away is what goes away now is this standalone store of a range of products. Like that's not happening anymore. But yeah.

'''Brad:'''  The store, the retail storefront's not happening. The pin show tables are not happening.

'''Myke:''' Yeah.

'''Brad:'''  Um, that type of like just big retail is not happening. Yeah. You know, one-off, one-off stuff is definitely on the table. It's just not, don't expect any, even me to even think about that until next year. It's going to take me that long to ship, to ship everything I have right now.

'''Myke:''' So you, you, you've at the moment, you've got a lot of stuff, right? Like a lot of orders, you know, when you see all of these orders come through, like these hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of orders. Do you get any regrets about closing this down? Like clearly people love the stuff and there's, there's a desire. Or do you think like, this is just a one-off? No, people aren't going to do this usually.

'''Brad:'''  Yeah. No regrets. Okay. Cool. Like it's not even a consideration because you've known me long enough. I don't make snap decisions. Yeah, I know. If you have followed me for long enough, you know, I'm just not going to jump for no reason without thinking about it for quite some time in the bigger picture. And I don't have one ounce of maybe I should rethink this and try to make it a go. Like I am done. Like that part of this journey is done. You know, maybe there's a different journey to be had, you know, like that's why I like, I'm not sad about this, right? Like this is a journey type of situation. I am so proud of what Jeff and I built and I'm so happy with what we created. And, you know, I'm just like going down the road. Like we've got more mile markers to hit down the road. And this was maybe a little detour or something, but it's not a negative.

'''Myke:''' So what you're saying is life is a highway?

'''Brad:'''  We don't need you to sing in two consecutive episodes. Are you sure? I don't know. I think it could become my new thing. Yeah. No, no. But like, you know, I am, like I'm happy. Like, and I'm not relieved yet that I made this decision because I have a lot of work in front of me to really kind of wrap this up. But like I know by next year, like all I have to do is open my notebook that I took on vacation and look at all the things I want to do. And knowing that I made this decision today is going to allow me to do those things that, you know, are going to continue to build on what I've already built. Like it's hard to talk about yourself in like a business sense. You know, that's always been a difficult challenge for me. But like I am really happy with what I've built and that I've been able to make a living of it. And Nock was a part of that like for a long time. And, you know, now it's not going to be like a core part of that. And like because everything else is going so well, like I'm totally cool with that. Like I'm completely fine. It was just it was hard to make the decision, but I know it was the right decision.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, I think I think it was too. I mean, sometimes, you know, when you when you have all of these different endeavors, you just need to let some stuff go to find some mental space. So that you're able to continue focusing on everything. Sometimes it's not even about like how much work a project or a thing actually takes up. Like, you know, you might work on it for two hours a week, right, which maybe isn't that much or whatever. But it's the mental energy that it takes for having all of these things just in your brain all the time that I actually think takes the much larger load than the time spent.

'''Brad:'''  Yeah. And you know me, that's a very big issue for me. Like the mental the mental energy. Like I get I get sapped and drained on the regular just because of the mental overhead it takes to continue doing this.

'''Myke:''' Spoiler alert. Guess who's also been thinking about this? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like that's that's what that can be a big it can be a big effect. And I think for that reason is is more than enough for you to continue with this idea, especially considering, as you say, like it just changed and it wasn't it wasn't the same anymore. So.

'''Brad:'''  Yep. Yep. And like I I had to come to peace with that over the last six months and I finally did. And and yeah, I'm I'm I'm content with the decision. I'm it's it's totally the right decision. And it's actually, you know, a little bit overdue, I would say, you know, you know, not extremely overdue. But, you know, in the last six or nine months, you know, maybe I could have jumped a little bit earlier and, you know, but it's all good. All good, man. I am.

'''Brad:'''  I don't know. I don't know how to end this other than to say just like I'm really proud of knock and really happy that I mean, it's your journey, right? Like, yeah, you are now. It's a big deal for me. It just is. And that's what makes it hard to let it go, despite knowing that it's the 100 percent correct decision. Yeah. So, yeah, that's why I just ramble on. I'll keep rambling on about it. So to put a bow on this, maybe I don't know. Maybe you have more questions, but I will say there's going to be another email coming saying, OMG, thank you. It's going to be a while before you get your order. Because it's a mess. It's wow. It's a lot. So, yeah, expect a knock email today. And if you're not on the email list and you have placed an order, it's going to be a while. But I will ship everything. It's just going to take some time.

'''Myke:''' This episode is brought to you by a new collaboration between Estabrook and Accutron. Watchmaker Accutron and pen maker Estabrook have joined forces to produce a new pen collection commemorating both of the brands. And it's called the Accutron by Estabrook. These two brands have a really rich history. Both have successfully represented what was beloved about the past with the great possibilities of the future. And so the Estabrook is a collaboration that is history in the making. This Estabrook is made from the proprietary diamond cast formula in Accutron green blended with gold and diamond dust. Gold plated trims accentuate this limited edition collection, which delivers in luxury as much as it delivers with an exemplary writing experience. 100 pieces of this collection are offered in the Estee Oversize model with 18 karat gold nibs coveted for their exceptional performance, making their Estabrook debut with the Accutron tuning fork logo engraved upon them. The Estee Accutron is also available in limited production traditional fountain pen size with a gold plated nib and engraved logo in a full range of nib sizes. Every pen is equipped with their cushion cap closure to provide a secondary seal to ensure an easy start every time. Plus nibs specially manufactured for Estabrook by German maker Yowo, and they can be inked with any international cartridge or converter. The Estee Accutron is also offered as a limited production rollerball as well, so you get a different writing experience, but with that same beautiful design. These are lovely looking pens.

'''Brad:'''  So you need to click the links in this show note because these don't pop up at retailers like that you're used to. They're a direct collaboration with Accutron, and they are worth checking out because this material is awesome. This is one of the coolest ones that they've done yet, and they have a little Accutron logo etched on the nib. And I just think it's really well done, set up perfectly, and I think it's a killer collaboration. And do yourself a favor and go take a peek at these. If you're into the Estabrooks at all, which I am, I'm kind of in love with this one, and it's worth checking out.

'''Myke:''' I'm using my Estee today, actually. Yeah, I need to ink mine up. So nice. They're really great. They really are. I really do like these pens. They're overall just a great package, and then in these special edition colorways, it's just even more so. It's super cool. And you should go check it out for yourself. Go to accutronwatch.com slash collections and choose partnership items, and you'll see the Estee Accutron there. You can also use the code on the site PENADDICT20, and you'll get 20% off, which is incredible. That's accutronwatch.com slash collections. Choose partnership items. We also have links in the show notes as well, as Brad mentioned. And you'll use that code PENADDICT20 for 20% off. Thanks to Estabrook and Accutron for their continued support of this show and RelayFM.

'''Brad:'''  I'm exhausted.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, should we do a couple of us TPAs and get out of here?

'''Brad:'''  Yeah, we can. We can.

'''Brad:'''  Yeah, I feel like, so you know me, I feel like I've said a lot, but I want to say more, but there's nothing new I would say. So you have to stop me, so we should do some STPA. Yeah.

'''Myke:''' All right, TJ asks, I have six fountain pens, and I already cannot keep track of which ink cartridges work with which pens. How do you keep all of this straight, or does no one actually use these cartridges after a certain point and just switch to converters?

'''Brad:'''  So, I mean, anything written, right? Like, I try to manage that just by writing it down, right? It's, you can't keep in track. You make a, like an ink log, right? So you just have, when you put the cartridge in, you go and you write down what is where, right? That's how I've done it in the past. Then, I don't know, TJ's probably already there with six. Like, if you have two fountain pens, it's easy to, like, keep up with. But six is, like, a bit of a management issue. Like, how do you keep them straight? And maybe you're not quite, like, the FPC.ink, the fountain pen companion setup yet. But if you use a notebook regularly, flip it to the back page, and that's where you do this stuff. That's how I do it. And then I know when I've finished that pen, even though I have six, I can refer back to what I had in it before and then make a decision. Do I want to put in the same cartridge? Do I want to clean it and put in a different cartridge? Or, like TJ's alluding to, you're going to be in the converter. You're going to be in the converter and ink bottle game before long. Like, that's just kind of how it works.

'''Brad:'''  That's just kind of how it works. So, the cartridge management is a little bit tough. Most of them are in international sizes, either short or long. So, they're compatible to a degree. There are some slight variants in the sizes and widths. Like, you might have a long international cartridge that will fit in the barrel that came with, but might not fit in another barrel just from a diameter perspective. I just try to keep them in their original boxes. Because I know which one, you learn pretty quickly which ones are proprietary. Like, if you have a Lamy, only Lamy cartridges are fitting there. Right? If you have any of the Japanese pens, only their cartridges are fitting in there. Everything else, eh, it's kind of a toss-up. I mean, there's some small proprietary stuff with, like, Parker, Schaefer's, and Cross. In general, you figure out pretty quick.

'''Myke:''' I mean, one of the reasons that most people, including me, switch to converter is you don't have to think about this anymore.

'''Brad:'''  So, I keep a box full of cartridges, but they're all in their original box. And then I keep a separate box just full of empty converters that I just go grab. Even, like, they're mixed up. Like, my international converters are mixed in with my Japanese converters because I can, I know what they look like just visually. But, like, my cartridges, I just keep them in the original boxes and know how to pull them. And if I, if you get to a situation where you're ordering pens and you receive a bunch of cartridges, right, like, that are shipped with them and you don't really know what they are, what the ink are, what the ink in them is, you know, I just, I set those aside separately. Like, I have a little Ziploc full of the unknown, the unknown cartridges that I just keep for probably no reason. But, you know, I'm usually swapping in something that, that I've purchased separately than what the, what the pen ships with.

'''Myke:''' Sorry, TJ.

'''Myke:''' There are words to say. We can't help you. You have to get used to it.

'''Brad:'''  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you, you'll, you'll, you'll get the visuals soon of what goes with what. Like, it's pretty easy. And the feel.

'''Myke:''' You know, sometimes you jam a converter in and it doesn't fit. Like, okay, need a different one for this pen.

'''Brad:'''  Yep, yep.

'''Myke:''' Matt wants to know, what's up with Conid?

'''Brad:'''  I feel like we've covered this before, but I'm not sure. Um, even if we have, they are, I guess they've always been a medical manufacturing company that has an engineering group that also made pens. Um, someone can correct me if I'm, I'm wrong in my general assessment of, of what the brand does. So when COVID hit, they escalated their, um, side of the business that is the medical manufacturing and no longer had time to make pens. They've never said they're done with Conid as like a brand or a sub brand of what they traditional make.

'''Myke:''' Conid focused on COVID.

'''Brad:'''  Mm, yes.

'''Myke:''' Yes. Yes. Um. Come on, I can't not do that. You put that in my lap and I have to take that.