Editing The Pen Addict 285/transcript (section)

== Abercrombie & Fitch ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' So there's another one on the list, Myke. But, yeah, I like stared at the black floral print. I was like, man, that is cool. But then I just moved on. So then Michelle brought it to my attention. If you go to their website, actually in the US, you go – and I clicked over and I'm like, oh, really? So the fishing one, which Field Notes calls Heritage, is listed as a men's notebook. And they're not even like on the same page. There's no like notebooks. There's no accessories. There's just like men's notebook and you can't even like link over to the floral print. You have to like go hunt down in the women's section and find women's notebook, floral print. And this is just dumb. Like I hate everything about it. There's no reason for this to have happened. And, you know, we rail and joke – like Bic for her is the classic joke. I was like, why are you doing this? Just stationary does not need to be gendered any which way. We've been through this. So, yeah. So, you know, I got to thinking about it and started having some conversations on Twitter. And I was – the hard thing about Twitter conversations is they get so broken up. And plus, like I'm doing it like train of thought wise. I was like, okay, well, I see this and I see Field Notes called them heritage and floral. Did they have anything to do with Abercrombie saying this is a men's notebook and this is a women's notebook? And I was thinking no. You know, they probably don't. But as, you know, my friends in Twitter feed was like, well, you can't not know that when you're going into this conversation with Abercrombie who's asking you to make a masculine and a feminine notebook. You have to understand from a branding perspective that this is what they're going to do. And are you okay with that as a company? So, the bigger issue – so I'm going to jump off that real quick. It turns out the things that I don't know is that Abercrombie has done some really crappy things in their past. Like I don't know anything about this, but people enlighten me. So, they've done, you know, sexists, sizists, you know, all kinds of things. Like I was getting texts and tweets with the words hate and evil about Abercrombie as a company. Like people are really upset with Abercrombie in a big picture kind of way. So, they're like, well, why does this brand that I love want to go to this company that I hate? Those are the questions we can't answer, you know. We're not in Field Notes boardroom. But as a company, they also have to realize, hey, these questions might come up if we work with this brand. And is that something we want to associate with? I mean, their answer was, yeah. But, I mean, I don't know. It's a weird thing. I don't like it. I don't like it from Field Notes from their perspective. I don't like the fact that Abercrombie gendered notebooks.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I don't like the fact that a lot of people, like, despise Abercrombie for the awful things that they've done in their past. I don't know what their current situation is. I don't even know what all the awful things are in the past. And so, now you have this dilemma. You know, here's a brand I love in Field Notes, working with a brand that I don't know a lot about, but has done some bad things and affected a lot of people in a negative way. So, that's the other thing, right? You just can't look at it. I can't look at it from just my perspective, right? My perspective's mine, and how it affects me is different from how it affects someone else. And you have to accept that and validate those thoughts as well, right? I can't just say, well, here's what I think, and that's what it is, right? Because I'm coming from the most frivolous position on the planet as a white male, right? Well, I'm not a female who is getting, you know, size shamed by a company, right? So, you would have a different perspective on that. And it seems to me just like a miss from Field Notes perspective as kind of they went in with blinders on as we're going to do this American heritage thing, right? Because that's what Field Notes does really, really well. And Abercrombie used to be this great American heritage brand, you know, 100 years ago. And I think it may, I mean, I don't know. We're all assuming. I think it maybe put blinders on to what the outcome might be in this situation. So, I've rambled enough. I've got more to say, but do you want to add anything?

'''Myke Hurley:''' I do. This is a very tricky thing to talk about. Like, in a way that I haven't had problems talking about previous stuff like this. Like, what was the one that we were talking about recently? Who was it that made that pen that drove me insane? Mont Blanc. Mont Blanc made a pen for ladies. Pen for ladies, right? The pen for ladies, which I loved and then would never buy. Because they labeled it as the pen for ladies. And the reason that, like, I have no problem with that. Because, like, to me, Mont Blanc is just this big soulless corporation. So, like, I can just be completely unabashed in my feelings. The problem I have, right? And, like, I'm just going to say this. Like, the people at Field Notes are my friends. And my belief about them is that they are good people with good intentions. Because I believe this because they are my friends. So, it's tricky for me to, like, to just be like, oh, these people, they just did wrong because they're dumb. Right?

'''Myke Hurley:''' So, like, I just want to, like, just say that. Because, I mean, I have my opinion. I'm going to go into my feelings about this a little bit more. But I feel like I'm not, I am not probably just going to sit here and be like, oh, they're a bunch of idiots. And they made a dumb, they made a dumb thing. And they're just stupid. And nobody should ever give them any money. Because I like to believe that there are a bunch of good people that wouldn't do something which is intended to upset people. Right. In my opinion.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, you know. Yes, I have more to say about that. But you go on. So, the thing is that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So, there's a couple of things, right? Me and you didn't know any of the stuff about Abercrombie and Fitch, right?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' No clue.

'''Myke Hurley:''' So, I have a question for you.

'''Myke Hurley:''' If you go into business of a company, do you look into their entire history?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Uh, I look into their general history, yes. I mean, how? I might have come up with, hey, they did some weird stuff.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Because I still don't know any of this Abercrombie stuff. Like, I don't really know anything about it more than what you've just told me. Like, how recent is this stuff? Like, is this like?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I don't know. I'm guessing 90s, early 2000s. Okay.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Because I would just say, again, I don't know the answers to these questions. But I just want to put them out there, right? Has there been a significant leadership change in Abercrombie and Fitch? I don't know.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Right? Like, I don't know the answers to these questions. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone. But, like, I'm just trying to say, like, how could you go into this? Right? Like, I mean, I'm sure that they have, I mean, I believe everything. Right? Because they're not the only clothing brand to do stuff like this. Like, I think of, like, American Apparel, who do all this sort of stuff. I mean, they're dead now, rightly so. Because they were a disgusting company as well, doing terrible things. So, I mean, so I don't know how much they looked into this. I don't know what the outcome of that is. I mean, you know, I don't know. But about the notebooks themselves, I can see how you could walk into this thinking that you're making a product to fit in with a male and female fashion line for a male and female fashion company. Mm-hmm. And I think that that would be mostly okay. Right? Like, if Abercrombie said to them, we want you to make a notebook for our male and female fashion lines that we're doing this year. I can see how you would do that. The problem is when they are labeled so specifically. Right? Like, the way that I look at this, if they had the men's line and the women's line, and each of those lines had a notebook in them. One of them was called Floral Prints, and one of them was called Heritage. I think I would be okay with that. My problem is it says men's and women's. That's what I don't like. Having them in the respective fashion lines, I think I'm kind of fine about that. But it is the fact that they are so explicitly labeled that is a problem for me because fashion, which in Abercrombie & Fitch is fashion, fashion has these typical trends that appeal typically to men and women. Typically. Right? Right? That, like, if you're looking at things going into the past, right? Like, you might find that women will be more likely to wear a floral print. Now, again, I have lots of floral print, personally. But, like, I'm just looking at what is the traditional things in fashion. And this is, I think there is meant to be something in this line which is meant to be hearkening back to their history or something. Right? So, you know, whatever. So, I can see how you would maybe walk into this and be like, oh, we're making this, like, traditionally men's, traditionally women's, blah, blah, blah. The problem is the fact that they are labeled as men and women. That's what I don't like. I think that's what most people don't like here. I don't know if and when anybody knew about this. I do feel like if Field Notes knew that they were doing this, they have screwed up. Because I think that's a dumb thing to do. But I think that every company is allowed to screw up from time to time. But it's how they deal with it going forward, which is the most important thing. Like, you can miss something. You can make a bad decision. You can do something that you think is kind of fine, right? Like, a lot of people, times you get blinders on. Right? So, like, you're doing something and you think that it's great. And you kind of get lost in it and don't necessarily know how people are going to react to it. Like, I know I've been that way, right? I think you've been that way. Everyone gets that way. Sure. About things that they're doing in their companies. Because you're like, this is so awesome. Like, I think of someone like Dropbox. You know, they just did their big redesign recently. Which is just a dumb redesign. But, like, they had their blinders on about how great their redesign was. And then they put it out to the world and everybody hates it. So, I think the way that I look at it is, like, I think everyone screws up from time to time. I guess we'll see if and how they deal with this going forward. Like, if this is the thing that keeps popping up, that's a whole different situation. But, I mean, I don't know. I don't feel like we've had to have this conversation about them before. Yeah. So, yeah. Look, again, I'm sure that I have said things in the last five minutes, which people are going to feel differently about, right? Like, I think that this is a real hot button issue.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I don't really know how to address that. Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. But, yeah. Yeah. And I tried, too, on Twitter last night. And that's a hard place to do it, too, because everything gets, like, mixed up. And every little micro word gets twisted into something else sometimes. So, you know, I think I just wanted to leave it as they have 10 years of great decisions behind them. People are going to make mistakes. I'm willing to let this one go. Like Andy said, Andy Wellfleet, who was in our Twitter conversation last night, he said, well, Brad, you treat the company, you know, as well. You treat the business decisions as part of the company, you know, just like you did with Bear and Fig. And, you know, you have to treat field notes, you know, by who the company as a whole and who they decide to work with. And I said, you're absolutely right. And I said, I gave Bear and Fig two years of the benefit of the doubt. Before I could no longer work with them anymore. And I'm willing to do the same thing with field notes. It's a one. This is the first time I've seen anything like this. They've got 10 years of track record. That's pretty good. So there's any talk of boycott or limiting them, I think is uncalled for for a one-time event. But it depends on their actions going forward.

'''Myke Hurley:''' And your personal preferences. Sure.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Like, I think the bigger issue is that they worked with Abercrombie, period. Like, that's what I'm gathering from people is like, that's the hugest turnoff. The mistake that launched it even further into the stratosphere was the segregation of the notebooks, which is terrible. Like, I don't agree with that in anything. But combining that with the history and the effect that Abercrombie has had on a lot of people, I think just sent it over to the top. So we'll see what happens from here. You know, I'm willing to, just like any other company that I work with, to try to understand their decision. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. And if things play out differently in the future, my opinion is subject to change.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So what they should have done, Myke, as we armchair quarterback, is had a three-pack of a floral, a fishing, and a black. And then we'd all be rushing to go buy the notebooks. But they didn't.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, they didn't.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That would have been super cool. That would have been the super heritage pack. Yeah. But fact is, they did what they did. And, you know, we'll see what happens from here. But I'm willing to try to learn more about why they did it, learn why people are upset, you know, about it, and rightfully so. And, you know, elevate their thoughts as, you know, legitimate and concerning and be empathetic to all kinds of points of views that aren't mine. And so it's a weird situation. A lot of people want to chime in and say it's just stationary. It's just a notebook. And I just think that's dismissive, even though it's not on the scale of, you know, what's going on in the political world and things like that in your real life. We do have companies and brands that we love and respect. And you always want them to do the right thing because you're supporting them with your dollars. And they become part of you when you buy into them. And you want those companies to represent you as a person well. So hopefully this is a learning experience. And we'll see what comes out for it next time. So we'll see.