Editing The Pen Addict 492/transcript (section)

== Colorverse Nebula Planner ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, like, I can't even get to the bottom of this list. The Diplomat Arrow rollerballs are a huge percentage off. The Penider Metropolis rollerballs with all kinds of different colors are, like, it's non-stop. So definitely go check out PenChalet.com right now. Use the code PENADDICT. And there is something there for you, I promise.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Thanks to Pen Chalet for the support of this week's episode.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So when are we going to start talking about pens and the different colors as their livery?

'''Myke Hurley:''' Oh, also it's livery.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Livery. Yeah, sorry. I'd rather say it livery. But I heard something like livery. I like it. We should start doing that. Like the sailor livery. Sailor livery. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We have some hot off the press, literally, a topic to discuss today. And this relates to an envelope I received in the mail from one of my good Pen friends who happened to be at the Tokyo International Pen Show and happened to acquire me some of the Sanzen Tomoe River Successor paper, which I just opened yesterday on stream. So we can put in a link to my recap of the stream. So if you want to see me testing inks and kind of giving my long form rambly thoughts on my first look at this paper, you can do so. But I have it here in front of me, Myke, and I would like to discuss it if that's good with you. I would, I desperately want to know. First off, my good friend Jacob at Fooday Fan, go check out, we've included this link to his review of the Sanzen paper that's up on his blog. I haven't had that amount of time to spend with the paper yet to do a full proper linkable review. But Jacob's is fantastic. He goes through all the different tests that you would want to see in testing out this paper compared to the version 1 and 2 of Tomoe River paper. So go check out what Jacob has to offer. So my first look was throwing ink at the page with a folded nib, right? So I'm putting a lot of ink on the page. And then I did a little bit of writing. So for round two, I'm going to do a lot more writing because that's what really most of us use this paper for. But the idea with this paper is to recap, Sanzen is a manufacturer that bought Tomoe River in name from Tomoe Gawa Paper Company. So Sanzen is the new owner of the Tomoe River brand with the intent to make a similar paper to the famed original Tomoe River paper that fountain pen fans love and rave about and is used in a lot of products.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' There's been a long road to get here from a stationary fan perspective, right? So Tomoe Gawa stopped making, stopped using the original machines for the Tomoe River paper that everyone loves. And that caused some problems because their replacement was very poor. It was not representative of the original at all. So it's been a challenge ever since then to see, hey, are we going to have something similar? And I think Sanzen has done a really good job here.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm going to start at the end and then we'll go through it a little bit. It's not as good as the original Tomoe River paper, the 52 GSM. But that's relative, right? Like it doesn't have to be, right? What it is is a really...

'''Myke Hurley:''' There's a lot of headway. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' What it is is a really, really good paper that's going to do a really good job as a replacement. Like I would... I don't know that I've called any of the other Tomoe River options a replacement or finding any other brand as a replacement to the original Tomoe River. This is about as close as it can get. It handles ink really, really well. You see all of the character you want to see in the inks from whether that's shading, sheen, you know, just how, you know, the color is... The brightness of the color on the page. All of those things are really, really great on this new Sanzen paper. If you have to keep comparing it to the original 52 GSM Tomoe River, that paper does all those things better, right? It's not a fair comparison at this point. Because like that's going away. It just needs to go. Because I don't think anything's ever going to match. When I put these side by side, it's clear there's differences. But that doesn't mean that the Sanzen paper isn't exactly what the market needs. What they're trying to figure out is how to make this thin paper that's really great for fountain pens and stationary users specifically, right? So the companies that rely on the old Tomoe River paper that is going to be no longer available, I think will be very happy with using this paper for their products. I'm talking about like a Hobonichi or any notebook manufacturer that has previously used Tomoe River paper. What I see out of this paper is really high quality fountain pen performance, right? What I said in my Instagram post is you don't get the highest highs of like the peak shading or sheen that you would get like a 10 out of 10 on the 52 GSM old Tomoe River. It's like an 8 out of 10 on the Sanzen. Do you know how good that is? Like it's really good. Not a lot of papers can accomplish that.

'''Myke Hurley:''' This is what I was saying about headroom, right? Yeah. It doesn't need to be as good to still be basically the best. Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. So I think what I see so far is this paper is going to do really well. It's going to, people are going to get this and go, oh, okay, good. I like people are going to say, I'm good with this, right? If they pull up a sheet of the old paper, the 52 GSM and put it side by side, they'll go, yeah, I see some differences here, right? It's not like an exact match, right? It's not the same formula on the same machines and the same, you know, the, the same air and the same air quality and humidity and all those things. Like it's just not, but what it is, is really dang good. And I think it's going to do really well as whatever air quote replacement you want to call it. And like, that's, I really, I'm going to bang this drum again. And you, you were on the other side of this coin. They got to shake the Tomoe River name completely. It has got to go. And I, I hope for their sake, it has to go because if you keep that name, all you can do is ever compare to it is compared to what came before the Tomoe River one, Tomoe River two, and this people will just call it Tomoe River three, right? The Sands or Sands and Tomoe River. And if you have that name, like I understand you bought the branding, but this is a different product. It's, it doesn't compare, you know, it's a hundred times better than whatever the, the catastrophe that Tomoe River two was, but the original Tomoe River paper is still like one of the greatest fountain pen papers ever. But for like a very particular audience, right? Like the, the one in 2% fountain pen user audience understands what Tomoe River 52 GSM original is. And this is not it, but this is a heckin good paper, right? It is going to be that replacement. It's going to do really, really well for those applications where this type of thin fountain pen quality paper is, is going to be right. There's no feathering, no bleeding, you know, none of, none of the, the negatives. Um, this paper doesn't have any of those downsides of any performance related downsides, right? It just doesn't have peak color and shading and sheen that the original had. So long story short, they have something here for sure. And I think we'll start seeing this in broader stationary use hopefully next year. I don't know anything about dates or anything like that, but if what I have in my hand, as far as I'm concerned, is, is ready to go. Like, I think people will be very happy with this paper and, um, it's, it just needs to be a standalone product and you have a standalone mindset when you're using this. Like, I feel like it's, it's really, really good. Um, just don't get caught up in forcing to compare it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I mean, I've said before, I think they should, I think they should keep the name, but I think maybe what they should actually do is riff on the name. Yeah. Like, I don't, I assume Tomoe River is a place. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I mean, I don't know the, the whole, I just know Tomoe Gawa, uh, the original company. I don't know the actual, like, um, entomology of the, of the name.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Cause like, I don't know, like you could call it like Tomoe Air Paper or something. Yeah. You know, I, but I, I personally, I would still say, um, keep the name.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So, uh, last couple of things on here, like I did a bunch of ink testing, right? And it's funny. It's like some of the inks perform better on one, on the Sanson compared to the old 52. Some perform worse and some perform the same. It was like really interesting. It was very ink dependent on how they, they, they worked. Like I tried a very, a sheening ink. So I tried the Diamine Iridesc Ink Phillip. Those almost performed identically. Like you could see just as much sheen on the Sanson paper as the Tomoe River paper. But then I tried Kyanit Dune Paul, which is a shimmer ink. And it's not the shimmer that made the difference on the page, but like it took the color differently on that ink on that ink on the Sanson paper was, had different character than the ink on the old 52 GSM paper. You know, um, worse in my opinion, you know, it didn't show as much of the ink characteristics, but then something like Kala Armada, which is a very shading ink and a lighter ink. It had a ton of character on the Sanson paper and was a little bit flatter on the original. So it was very hit or miss as far as like exact, did they behave exactly the same on, on each, each page? It was like a weird yes, no, maybe kind of situation. So, which tells me it's like, it's going to be very good. Um, overall and overall paper, it's going to be very good. So, um, I will do more testing. I'll do a proper test. I'll do a lot more handwriting. Um, again, I was just spreading ink around and, um, I have some questions about how the Iron Gaul inks behaved on the Sanson paper that needs more testing. Right. Like I, I don't think they did a good job. Um, like the, the chemical composition of the Iron Gaul did not behave near as well on the Sanson paper as they did on the 52 GSM. I, I, and I don't know why, right. I don't know why that is, but that was a clear difference in, in paper. But again, overall, it's going to be great. I think it's going to do really, really well. And people, you know, 95% of the stationary users who use this paper will be thrilled. And then, and then, you know, we'll hear about, you know, forever comparisons to the original Tomoe, um, which is fine too. Like that paper exists and it's, it was popular for a reason, right? It should, should be beloved. But yeah, um, this is a different paper and it's good.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' You wrote a review of the Lamy Zivo. Oh, I'm going with Zivo. I haven't, I haven't heard them say it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' X Evo.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' X Evo. What is this pen? I even spelled it wrong.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Where did this come from?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Um, out of the ether. Um, when did this come up? Um, we were looking at a different pen just recently when this one came out at the same time and I was like, oh, that's interesting. I was like, well, what I, I had the same questions as you as like a Lamy super fan. I was even like, what is this pen? What are you telling me here? You know, what is going on? I couldn't even tell from Lamy's original pictures. And I alluded to this in my review is like, is this a metal pen? Is this plastic? Like, I didn't know for sure until like I saw the price. Like, is this a $50 pen? Is this a, you know, $25 pen? Is it metal? Is it plastic? It's a plastic pen and it's $10 and it's freaking great. It's like they really did a good job with a really basic pen. And it's not always easy to do when you're someone like Lamy. They have, you know, some of the biggest design chops in the whole industry to make a really simple entry-level pen, make it well and keep it at a decent price point. You know, $10 for, you know, most of us in the stationary world or that are listening to this podcast, that's a pretty inexpensive pen. I understand, you know, relative to like a Pilot G2, it's a very expensive pen. But, you know, for what we talk about on a daily basis, this is a dirt cheap pen and it definitely plays above the price point or at least delivers for that price point. So it's a triangular barrel. I also wasn't sure about that when I got the, when I first ordered the pen, how did the triangular grip section play with the rest of the pen? So it kind of, it's one of those that kind of morphs as it moves towards the end of the pen, like the end of the pen turns round, right? But towards the, towards the tip, it's triangular and that allows a good grip. Like it makes a good grip. Like not everyone's going to love it.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It reminds me of the things that you would, when you were, when I was learning to write and you'd put like this rubberized triangular grip around a pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. And those work because you can rotate them, right? Unlike the Lamy Safari, that's not a rotating in your hand pen. And which, you know, you could argue that fountain pens are not pens you're going to rotate in your hand anyway. So that grip works for the Safari, but this is a ballpoint, use a ballpoint refill and people just, you know, habitually just turn those pens in their hand when you're right. And at first I was like, oh, like, this is interesting. Like the, the clip, it kind of hits my hand when I have it in this position. I was like, oh, wait a minute. I'll just turn it. And it's perfect. I really like this pen. It's like kind of hard to explain why other than maybe I didn't expect it from Lamy, even though they do a really good job at the low end. Like the high end Lamy is where most of my angst lies, right? Like, you know, gold nib pen Lamy is where, you know, I struggle with what the brand's doing, even though I would like to see them do more at the low end. And the high end is, I think, where they're, they're falling short of the, just the general consumer or the, or the, the picky stationary consumer that listens to this show. But this pen for 10 bucks, sign me up. The, the only like downside is this is a reasonably proprietary refill, right? It's a ballpoint pen. Not everyone's going to like that. It's not going to be compatible with Parker style refills. It's got this really particular design element to it where Monteverde has actually made refills because Lamy uses this refill shape so frequently. Monteverde does have a few different colors, but you're really, you're really tied into a ballpoint refill with this pen. But I could see this being like the Lamy Tipo for, um, for Lamy where, you know, every year they make two or three colors of it. If it, if it does well, and the Tipo is a rollerball platform and this is a ballpoint platform. And, you know, maybe, you know, next year we get like a, you know, they start mixing up the colors and, and see how it goes. I just think for $10, it's such a good pen, really well executed by Lamy. And I'm just like, I'm impressed that at this, that it's at this price point to be perfectly honest. Like it doesn't feel, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like you, you pick it up and feel it. You don't go, Oh, this is a $60 pen. It's not right. But for what it is, it's really darn good.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Did it, what? Did it just have it in this gray?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, there's a black one right now. So gray and black. I mean, it's Lamy. Come on. Huh. But like, there's no, with this plastic barrel, it's, it's basically, you know, just the two piece. Yeah. Two piece barrel that I don't see with this material, why they just couldn't be in whatever color they wanted it to be. Yeah. It's not, but it's also Lamy. But with the Tipo, the Tipo, they mix and match. And with the Pico, the Pico has a metal barrel. That's the weird retractable pen. You know, they do all kinds of wild colors in that, fluorescents and metallics. And with the Tipo, they do the same thing. And they have a few pens that they like to do that with. And this is just the most basic of all of them. Like literally the most basic of all of them. Like there's no reason.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Is this a cheapest pen?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I think so. I think the Tipo is like 13. I'm trying to think if they have anything sub 10. I don't think they do. I think this might be. Which is good. Like you're making a statement like with that. Like, I don't think you do that unless you plan on continuing to do that. Right. In my mind, $10 pens don't work as, hey, this is a one-off. Right. The $150 pen is like, hey, that's a one-off. Right. Let's just, let's do this. And like, it's whatever happens, happens unless something, you know, really goes crazy. But like you make a $10 pen and just, it's so easy to just do more. If they were received well. And I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be received well.