Editing The Pen Addict 543/transcript (section)

== Sketchnote Handbook 10th Anniversary ==


'''Myke Rohde:''' It kind of does, because I've been forced to deal with it since the sketchnote handbook is 10 years old, as of November 30th. So, I've been thinking about all these, like, man, 10 years ago, that's what was going on? So, it sort of surprises me, and at the same time, is no surprise at all.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So, to prepare for this, I actually went back and listened to that episode, which I'm not going to recommend the listeners do, because I sounded terrible. You were awesome. Like, if y'all just want to listen to Myke's side, Myke was great. And I sounded terrible. But I did some prep for that by listening to that. And, you know, we're obviously going to talk about lots of things that have, you know, transpired in the last decade of working on sketchnotes, working your regular job, you know, writing books and all this other stuff that has changed back then. So, we're going to dig into all that. But before we do, we have probably gained one or two listeners since episode 17, probably in the last decade. So, some people actually might not be familiar with sketchnotes. And that's most of what I have when I discuss with you today. And we'll talk about plenty of other things as well. Mm-hmm.

'''Myke Rohde:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Right.

'''Myke Rohde:''' Right. I think that's a really great point to bring out for a couple of reasons. One, if someone is considering this or thinking about maybe trying it, it reduces the pressure because you don't have to show anybody your work. It's just for you. And if it helps you, I always say, if you're doing sketchnoting, does it help you remember? Does it help you stay engaged? Does it help you feel like you're having fun, you know, engaging with the content, whatever that might be? Then it's a win, right? Like, if it doesn't look great or it's imperfect, or you have too much space over there or you spelled that wrong, you spelled that wrong, who cares, right? Because it's a resource for you first and then for others. And that's sort of the way I've always approached it.

'''Myke Rohde:''' So, that there are sketchnoters who are paid and paid pretty well for doing this work because it's not easy at that level or for that purpose. Because again, you're trying to think like, what would a reader want to see? You sort of have to put yourself into a reader's shoes, which might be you or might not be you, right? So, it's a little bit different requirement or approach than just doing it personally for yourself. So, I would recommend if you're thinking about trying it out to definitely take this mindset that you're doing experiments, you're doing it for yourself. If it's imperfect, it's okay. That there's a really simple way to draw if you want to add drawings and that the pressure should be low. You're not producing some amazing art piece. You're just augmenting your way of thinking by using visuals, which your brain and your body is designed to handle and do.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, yeah, that's great. So, how long have you been personally sketchnoting before the big capital sketchnoting happened? I know you've been doing this for a very, very long time.

'''Myke Rohde:''' Yeah, that's another good question. I would say I intentionally started sketchnoting in early 2007. That's when I really, I went out and I did an experiment where I took a small notebook and a pen, a gel pen, to a design conference. I'm a designer by trade. And intentionally went out to see, could I record information at this all-day workshop that I could then refer to later with the intention of doing sketchnotes, what I called sketchnotes. But the funny thing was, as I started digging through things in my archive of stuff from being a design student, I started looking back and I could see definitely in college I was doing sketchnoting. I didn't have a name for it. And even if, I suspect if I look back further in time, I was doing the same stuff even in high school and grade school. I remember I used to make my own newspapers. I made my own comic books. Like, there was so much making going on. And I'm sure that this blend of simple ideas, drawing, and visualization blended together existed, but I didn't really have a name for it. So, interestingly enough, when I talk to people, there's typically one of two responses. One is, oh, I've been doing this like my whole life, but I never knew what to call it. Thank you for giving it a name. Or the second option is, I have never thought about doing this and never seen it before. This is really cool. Thank you for providing a name and giving me permission to do it, right? So, there are a lot of people who were doing this work or doing something like it. And either they might have been scolded by a teacher or they just were doing it and there was no name for it. So, sometimes, you know, the joy of like naming something is that you give definition and shape to it so it can then grow, right? If it's sort of nebulous, it's hard to like go forward and grow it and go in a different direction. So, I'm really honored that I was lucky enough to have come up with a name for it. And then it, not only that, but then it really took off in the community with people using that word and then driving it further than I could have ever imagined.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, it's funny when you, like you said, going back to look at your notes or someone else realizing that, oh, I kind of did these things before. In the analog communities, the circles that we run in, you find a lot of people have gravitated towards these analog tools because of everything you've said before. It helps them process information or retain information. And someone, you know, maybe in college was sitting there in, you know, chemistry class and was drawing their notes instead of writing their notes because that's the best way that they process information. And then you, you know, kind of, you know, accidentally came up with like this general framework of, hey, you can kind of do this for real. And it's very helpful. And I think that's just a super interesting way to think about like sketchnoting. You might have, someone listening today might have been doing something like this all along, but there's actually ways that, you know, you can focus on it, you know, help focus on it to help you do a little bit better job or to retain information better. Or just have fun, you know, when you're listening to a conference or in a class or something like that. It's great. So when I was listening back to the podcast, you and I used a term or a platform, mentioned it many, many times during this original interview 10 years ago, and that is Flickr. So that must have been how I originally found you back in the day. Flickr still exists as a photo sharing website, but it was very, very popular back when you and I, I probably, we probably started talking probably not long after 2007, 2008, 2009, because that's when I started the pen addict blog. And then I'm finding, hey, this guy doing these cool like art notes, you know, I didn't know at the time what they were called and sharing them on Flickr. So what was it like when you started to share your work digitally, the feedback you were getting? And, you know, what ideas did that give you at the time when you started to get some people noticing this?